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Über Genius
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I'm really not in the mood for people to flip me carp.
I have a beef with HRW. It's valid whether or not YOU think it is or not.
It's not up for a popular vote.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
I'm really not in the mood for people to flip me carp.
I have a beef with HRW. It's valid whether or not YOU think it is or not.
It's not up for a popular vote.
My guy, I see you and I hear you. But I'm not HRW.. I'm just a guy who wants to put a t5 transmission in my Manta.
You seem to know a lot about this particular subject, so I'd love to hear your wisdom on it.

Now that you've aired your grievances can we please get back to solving the issue at hand?
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I believe the only difference was Oldopelguy was having them cast. At first look, it’s a little ugly, but then I see the genius in it, it’s cut away so you can adjust the clutch bolt. Or at least have a fighting chance.

That is honestly a genius thought that would have never crossed my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Since I am reasonably sure HRW either is the company I had build my batch of adapters or they bought out the company that did, it's probably safe to say they got their design from my drawings and the Opel bell housings I sent them in '08 or so. Mantapart was selling them in the 80s, so adapters of some sort have been around for all of 30 years. I actually asked Mantapart to run off a batch before I had them built, and only went ahead with it after they told me they weren't going to.

If someone wants to get bent out of shape about T5 adapter designs I'm perfectly willing to dig through the archives, prove who ran the first batch here, and smack down with whoever didn't bother crediting me or Mantapart for the idea for royalties. As the OG on this project I'm fine with anyone running a batch, and if I'm fine with it then anyone else should be.

Would you happen to have your initial technical drawings still?
I'd love to not have to spend the time and money getting someone to recreate what you've already solved.
 

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Detritus Maximus
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I could be mistaken. It was around '08-'09. This item is 3/4" thick.
 

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Über Genius
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Right now I am not working on the T5 project.
Having said that, I was going to be able to produce the 3/4" adapters for @$100 each plus shipping when I do make them.
I haven't done any pricing on the thicker Ford adapters.

If someone wants one during the next 12 months then they should use a different source.
 

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Über Genius
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I could be mistaken. It was around '08-'09. This item is 3/4" thick.
You are correct on the GM T5. The adapter should be 3/4" thick.
 

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I don't. The guys that built mine were already building them for a lot of other applications, specifically the Ford fladhead V8 crowd, so I sent them a couple of bell housings and the thickness measurement and they did the rest.

Like Keith said, the ones I had made were rough cast into shape and then final machined; the other side actually has "Opel-T5" cast into it. And like Keith mentioned, I was trying to preserve the ability to adjust the stud, particularly given that the S10 clutch upgrade needs a slightly longer stud and they were at the time all made by hand and a little bit different. I had planned on having the front of the adapter closed with a registering nub for the back of the Opel bell housing, and they were cast that way, but when they got to machining out the back the material was just too thin to really offer any support. In hind sight, I would have rather made the adapter another 1/8-3/16" thicker to support that register and then just made up some extended pilot bushings to make it work. In today's CNC world that's a couple clicks of code, but the castings didn't have enough material in them for it to work.

If I were going to do it now and didn't still have a couple of leftover adapters I would do it cheaper and easier. I'd call HRW or any one of a dozen other vendors that make those T5 adapter plates and get the cheapest one available that's @3/4-7/8" thick. I would then very carefully line it up so the center hole was concentric with the hole on the back of an Opel bell housing and mark for a 1" hole and notch where the clutch stud comes through the bell housing. Then, after I had thoroughly cleaned the bell housing I would line it all back up and TIG weld the adapter to the bell housing, or pay someone else to weld if I didn't have the equipment. Looks like the cheapest HRW adapter is @$160 in GM or Ford pattern, an alignment tool would cost me $2 to print with my 3D printer, and I know I could get it welded for a case of beer.
 

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Opel Key Master
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While I agree the adapters are 3/4 inch thick, the Opel clutch bolt measurement for adjustment is to stick out 3/4 of an inch. I think I would prefer 7/8 of an inch to have a little more adjustment/clearance. I think except for countersunk bolt holes, you could have one EDM cut out of aluminum for cheap. The HRW ones are nice billet aluminum, but $280 is a little pricey, though I haven't had the thinner S10 ones priced
 

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Opel Key Master
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I have run the S10 clutches and never needed the longer stud, I've heard needing them if you run a Getrag, but even then I haven't needed one. So I wonder why people feel they need it? Even Gil stated he carried them, but didn't know why as he never needed them with the S10 clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
The 3/4" vs 7/8" question is interesting. But that is specifically for the GM t5's correct?

Would the ford units need something bigger? Say like 1-1/8"?

As will all T5 swaps there is a boatload of information to keep track of, so I'm just hoping to clarify thickness and such per T5 option.
 

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I think the longer stud was needed with certain throwout bearings, probably a weird mix and match of some S10 stuff and some Opel, and I think it was more to get the angle of the arm right than to strictly speaking make it work. There was a time there when we were seeing a lot of bent clutch arms, and there was a lot of discussion about stretched cables and stud lengths and stuff needing adjustment to prevent the bending.

There was also some weirdness about how much got machined off the Opel flywheel to get the S10 clutch installed, but I don't think it's normally done that way anymore and I couldn't tell you what's going on with the aluminum flywheels.
 

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You can get the numbers yourself on the transmission you have, it's the difference in the length the input shaft sticks out on your new transmission vs the Opel 4-speed.
 

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Opel Key Master
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Adapter thickness all depends on your input. The picture I put up with the ford adapter that is 1-1/8 thick only allows the pilot of the input shaft to protrude from the bellhousing 1/4 inch. That’s not enough to ensure engagement in the bearing at the end of the crankshaft. The Opel pilot sticks out about 3/4 of an inch. The Chevette protrudes about 1/2 inch to 5/8 and is acceptable. So if I have a 1/4 now with a 1-1/8 plate...if I remove a 1/2 inch, that will get me in the ballpark of where I need to be. My S10 T5 is out of a 1988, first year for electric speedometer. The input shaft sticks out 7-1/4” from the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
You can get the numbers yourself on the transmission you have, it's the difference in the length the input shaft sticks out on your new transmission vs the Opel 4-speed.
That seems to make sense.. even to a dullard like me!
 

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What size is the pilot diameter ? Will it fit the stock pilot bearing in the crankshaft or do you have to modify a pilot bearing to work?. My trans has a 7 1/4 inch long pilot shaft too and the pilot is about 11/16ths diameter.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
The pilot is all the same. The S10 requires the least amount of modifications making it the top pick.
I agree. But the Mustang trans probably has the better gear set.
I think, since I'd probably be refreshing everything in the trans anyway, that swapping the input shafts might not be too difficult.

But I've never done this before so we will see.
 

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Über Genius
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Transmissions scare me. Taking them apart, and putting them back together, I mean.
I've done it. I've been successful doing it. But I've also been unsuccessful doing it.
(did a motorcycle transmission once and somehow added a gear plus a second neutral}
Someone says "replace the input shaft" and it stops sounding fun.
And as my son says, automatic transmissions work on magic.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Solving the problem is fun for me. Especially if it's something I've never done before.
Also, taking a heavy part off a shelf and putting it into a car so I don't have to move it around the garage any more sounds like a small slice of nirvana.
 
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