[Legba6]

Bazaar Engine Swap Question?

I hope my question isn't too taboo here. Being a newbie here and all I'd hate to offend on my first post. I've been researching Opels (specifically the GT) for a few months now and see it as a viable project for unique quick little car. This will be my first true restoration of an older car. If I stick with an Opel engine I'm sure it will be a 2.0 16V, but having an extensive background in building Hondas I keep wanting to go the route of a Honda S2000 (2.0 16V VTEC) engine. Small, lightweight, tons of aftermarket support, 240hp w/reliable 9,000rpm redline, bolted to a slick 6 speed right from the factory seems to good to be true for a match with the GT. Has anyone here ever heard of such an assanine idea, or am I the first? Complete swaps (complete engine, tranny, driveshaft, sometimes rear end/axles, computer, etc) can be had for less than $4k typically which is pretty good for a low mile complete setup with all the latest in technology. The problem is I don't have the car in front of me for a reference. How adaptable is it, or do I need to redesign the whole front half of the car to take it? I see there are quite a few typical swap options that people choose, but I'd like to be a bit different. Am I stomping on sacred ground here? Opinions please?

 

[Dan]

Considerations would be:

Length of engine/tranny -- should be fine since the S is small too
Shifter position -- should also be ok I'm sure it is on linkages and mounted to the car rather than tail of tranny
Height of motor -- will probably be fine, but note the GT has a special valve cover to clear the hood.
Physical size should be fine since it is 4cyl, may have to adjust for exhaust and intake if they come out too far
Motor and tranny mounts are typically the easiest part of a swap. I put a chevy V8 in a Mazda B2000, it was a snap to mount the motor and tranny but I had to cut a hole in the firewall 2' high x 2 1/2' wide x 1' back and move the pedals over to give me enough exhaust clearance. The 4 banger is not going to give you this much trouble, but make sure the dimensions of the tranny and bellhousing are such that it will fit in the tunnel or be prepared to cut a lot of metal.

If swapping the rear axel you'll be opening a whole can of worms. Since the S2000 is a indy rear susp you'll have to fab up everything. It would proabably be easier to get a custom drive shaft, but if you have the time and $$$ to do it more power to ya.
Also if you swap the rear suspension make sure you get the front susp upgraded to match spring and shock rates. Other wise you'll have a nice tight rear and a sloppy front and will probably end up plowing right off the road or spinning out.

Some food for thought.

Dan

 

[RallyBob]

Not sure about the S2000 (although my cousin has one), but other Hondas have a reverse-rotation engine (compared to the 'norm'). So, if this is the case, you MUST use all the Honda driveline, since the gears in the differential were not designed to be run in reverse under load. Also, you 'll need to use the fuel system from the Honda, and baffle the GT tank or use a racing fuel cell with baffles. ALL the emissions must remain intact, the S2000 engine is VERY sensitive to alterations to the factory-programmed parameters (removing the stock air filter box will lose about 8 hp for example, even though it 'sounds' mean as hell). It's a very nice engine overall, but it's kinda gutless below 6000 rpms...above that though, hang on! This will not be as much of an issue in an Opel, as the vehicle weight will be much less.

Bob

 

[Legba6]

You are right on engine rotation. All Hondas EXCEPT the V6 and S2000 I4 are reverse rotation. So I can use the opel rear, or more likely a built unit (Toyota?). Keeping all the emissions in check is no problem, and I will likely modify the fuel curves a bit, as the factory sets them very conservative (good for about 10hp and even more torque). I know all about the airbox as well, but it's more the intake temperatures than the airbox design that causes the HP losses. My only problem now is the engine height. About how much height is in the opel engine bay, and what is the height from bottom of oil pan to top of valve cover? Thanks for the input guys! It's only feuling the fire!

 

[Legba6]

Anyone else have any input on this?

 

[davegt27]

I think its a great idea

there was a web site that had a S 2000 motor in a 85 Toyota GTS

so i would think if it fit in one of those cars it would fit in a GT


there was a Guy that put a Ford 2.3 in a GT

I thought for sure one of those motors would never fit

Two problems you have to watch out for on a GT

as far as the engine bay is concerned anyway

1) the location of the steering rack (a lot of times it forces the motor to be placed up high)

2) is the drivers side foot well it sticks out into the engine bay further then most people think (but hey they been putting V8's in GTs for years)

if you can pick up the motor for a good price i would say go for it


Davegt74

 

[frypanman]

Personaly I think since you have experience swapping full drivetrains. You should first experience restoring an opel with the max upgrades. IE, a 2.4 16v eng, 5 spd getrag.... Then you could compair the difference & still have a great "german" opel?.?.?

 

[x dwarf racer]

Funny you asked this question...Just this past week I was discussing GT's and engines with an old race car fabricator friend and he suggested this same combo swap....200hp and use upgraded stock suspension ....Sounds fine for the street and maybe a little auto-x action...Hmmmm now how much does a crunched S2000 cost ???

 

[Excelsior]

Try Woodfin Auto Sales, Richmond VA

800-223-4663

He is list as being a honda parts dealer and does a fair amount of cheap rebuilders.

And let us know!

 

[rallye73]

How about an SR20DET? Strong, cheap, and lots of hp and torque with a little effort.

Darrin

 

[Gary]

Accura V6

I just bought heated, leather seats from an '88 Accura Legend for my (gasp) Manta and ended up with the whole car. (owning a car trailer can be dangerous) It has a V6 with 78,000 miles on it. ran great until it got broadsided. Anyone know if this engine can easily be adapted to rear wheel drive?

 

[RallyBob]

I don't claim to know anything about the Honda V6, but find out first if it rotates in the same direction as the Opel. Otherwise you'll have a lot of reverse gears and one forward.....

Bob

 

[oldopelguy]

Yup

Honda 4-cylinders and Corvairs all rotate "backwards." The v-6's all rotate correctly.

Kennedy Engineering could probably make you an adapter and flywheel, they have all the jigs and such, but the last custom one I saw them make was in the $800 range. The good news is that you could have them make it to allow you to use any transmission you like. They specialive in VW stuff, but they will do other adapters for the right price.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/

 

[opelbits]

The best use so far for a 'reverse rotation' Honda is in a FIAT 850. Or was it a 500/600? I think the 850. Anyway, I was told by someone with FAR MORE experience with Italian stuff that people used to put early Civic motors into them and would double or triple the cars power.
The Honda/Acura V6 is probably too wide (DOHC?), then all the f.i. stuff.
The rotary would be the easiest, in my opinion. The engine is really light, can have as much power as you could want (up to 170 or so with just the carb), and if you learn about them, they are dead reliable. The things to worry about having a radiator big enough (lots of heat), picking the right exhaust components (again, lots of heat and lots of noise, stainless is best for the muffler/resonator/cat). I'd forget about F.I. for simplicity's sake and go with a sidedraft Weber (they make carb/manifold kits for 12a and 13b (the better choice, imo).there are plenty of 4-5speed transmissions to choose from with different shifter positions and gear sets. Anyone thinking of this swap should look at the Racing Beat and Mazdatrix sites.
The only V8 to even think about putting into a street driven Opel (diplomats, aside) would be the Buick,Olds,Pontiac/Rover 215 aluminum V8. Anything else (iron V6s included) puts too much weight on the front end. The 215 is lighter than the 1.9 and how much or how little hp depends on the version you decide on. And since it is aluminum, it looks exotic and no one knows what they are!
Yada, yada, yada-

 

[oldopelguy]

current pricing

For anyone considering the S2000 route, thee are several e-bayers offering the whole drivetain (engine, trans, wiing, ECU, etc) in the $4500 ange. Too rich for my blood, at least all at once, but not terrible all things considered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2460920983

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2461810783

 

[69opelmi]

Fast forward 12 years and here's a S2000 engine in a GT

I ran across this on Craigslist: 1970 OPEL GT RACE CAR

Engine looks pretty tall. No wonder it is tilted substantially when installed in a S200. It would be cool to see this project car finished.