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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I started my GT the other day to simply let it idle for awhile. (I do this at least once a month during the winter.) When I started it this time, the starter would not disengage from the flywheel after starting. Man, it was making a racket to say the least! :shocked:

I figured the starter was hung up so I tapped it with a small hammer. No luck. The I tapped on the ignition switch on the steering column and starter disengaged. Now the engine is running fine. Soooo, I shut it off to try it again. Same thing happened except this time, I tried to stopped the engine by taking the key out but it kept raising hell with the engine running and no key! I really started to freak out now so I tapped on the ignition switch a few times and finally it stopped. This all leads me to think that the ignition switch is screwed.

Any thoughts? I guess I'll be contacting Opel GT Source tomorrow!
 

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Ooooooner, have you put the relay in for the starter ? And yes your switch is fried, if it has the relay, that is why it will not stop running, the short in the switch is enough to excite the relay and run the starter at the same time. BEEN THERE DONE THAT :yup:
 

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No....its not a Buick....
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Ooooooner, have you put the relay in for the starter ? And yes your switch is fried, if it has the relay, that is why it will not stop running, the short in the switch is enough to excite the relay and run the starter at the same time. BEEN THERE DONE THAT :yup:
yep,me too!

I will admit, after removing the relay, the switch has worked fine for several years. I only added it as a precautionary, and it caused this same problem on my car.
 

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Starter Relay

As far as I am concerned, it should be noted that it is VERY POSSIBLE for starter run on, and KICK on, when you install the relay on a old switch. This should be added to the pdf on this modification. This is not an isolated instance :ugh::ugh: The relay should ONLY be installed on a NEW switch. :yup:
 

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Although I tend to agree that it's the switch in the column, there's a way to find out for sure. And a remedy as well.

You might need some help with this one, or make a GIZMO to help you.
As well (should) know, the left spade connector on the starter excites a coil in the solenoid and causes the bendix to engage the flywheel and AT THE SAME TIME adds current to the coil through the right spade connector.

Thus, if your bendix gets stuck in the engaged position, you will get run on with the engine even if you remove the key.

Now, to test this, you just need to break the circuit between the ignition and the left spade connector on the starter. If you have a helper, engage the engine with the ignition switch and when it starts, have them turn it off. If it's still running at this point, disconnect the wire from the left terminal on the starter. If it stops, it's your ignition switch. If it doesn't then it's your bendix being gunked up.
If you don't have a helper, install a jump wire between the spade connection on the left side of the starter that you can reach from the driver seat and then you can engage the ignition AND break the starter connection.

The reason I am saying all this is I've experienced the same symptom you describe with both culprits (on different GTs),
The fact that the condition went away when you tapped on the ignition (location) is what makes be believe, also, that it's your switch.

Most people will tell you to buy a replacement ignition switch. Not a bad idea but I've rebuilt a few of them with good results. They aren't that difficult if you are adept at intricate repairs.


On a different note...
Whil typing this there was a cheesy SciFY movie on and a woman said she needed a "Class four solenoid" and reached on the shelf and picked up a big block starter. It had obviously been liberated of it's internals because she picked it up like it was a pound of butter.
 
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Have to go with Brad on this one. Disengage the relay and don't use it til you put in a new switch. Seems some folks do not want to acknowledge this problem is out there. If the relay is to be promoted folks also need to be made aware of this possibility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ooooooner, have you put the relay in for the starter ? And yes your switch is fried, if it has the relay, that is why it will not stop running, the short in the switch is enough to excite the relay and run the starter at the same time. BEEN THERE DONE THAT :yup:
Yep! I've got the relay on the ignition system. But I thought the relay was suppose to stop the switch from frying.... :thinking:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As far as I am concerned, it should be noted that it is VERY POSSIBLE for starter run on, and KICK on, when you install the relay on a old switch. This should be added to the pdf on this modification. This is not an isolated instance :ugh::ugh: The relay should ONLY be installed on a NEW switch. :yup:
Ok..... I installed the relay a few years ago in conjunction with a switch I had sent to OGTS to be rebuilt. This was before they started selling new ones. But it was rebuilt and not a half fried unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Have to go with Brad on this one. Disengage the relay and don't use it til you put in a new switch. Seems some folks do not want to acknowledge this problem is out there. If the relay is to be promoted folks also need to be made aware of this possibility.
John and Brad... I agree. I had no idea this problem existed until this happened and apparently, I'm not the only one that has had this problem. Need to get the word out there for people who have a relay with an older switch.
 

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John and Brad... I agree. I had no idea this problem existed until this happened and apparently, I'm not the only one that has had this problem. Need to get the word out there for people who have a relay with an older switch.
If this is a concern then install an emergency toggle switch in the wire that runs out to the starter coil. If the ignition switch fries then just flip the emergency switch to stop the starter. BTW I didn't know about this either and my car is set up with both an old ignition switch and the relay, no problem yet, but you got me thinking.
 

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Even with the toggle switch, you run the risk of getting to it before the starter does any damage to the fly wheel, clutch assembly, ect., and if the starter kicks on going down the HWY, :ugh::no::ugh: just ask Saxybike :yup:
 

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Roy
I have had this issue with two different GT's so as Brad says "been there done that". Taking the relay out stops the Starter issue but your Ignition switch will continue to get worse and then fail. Your post brings up another question. How long will a rebuilt or replacement switch last? When the switch on my 72 GT failed, like you I had it rebuilt. It worked fine for a few years but is showing signs of failure again. I did not install a relay after the rebuild. I think the fact that I have to crank it for awhile after it has sat for a day or two or during a hot start may have shortened it's life. I wonder if the new production run may last better. Still not sure if I will use the relay again.
 

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Am I the only paranoid one?
I've installed the new OGTS ignition switch. And I've installed two relays in series. Plus added an independent starter switch.

The sequence goes:
  1. Key in the OGTS ignition switch, turn to "power on" or "run" position. This supplies power to all systems including normal reduced voltage to the coil, but excluding starter juice.
  2. Flip the independent dead-man momentary toggle switch to provide full voltage to the coil for ignition, to the starter main juice for cranking, and the starter solenoid.
  3. As soon as she catches and fires up, release the momentary switch and all power to the starter and the starter solenoid is interrupted, and the coil voltage (input) is reduced to the lower normal operating voltage.
Because the electric fuel pump has a concealed switch, I'm fairly confident a car thief would have a hell of a time actually getting the GT fired up.

And though I've sketched it all out, I'm screwed if it ever fails as I cannot remember how it's actually wired up, or where the sketch currently resides. Probably at that point I'll just pull the wiring, switches, and relays and install a whole new independent system, for I am, without a doubt, the dreaded PO (previous owner).
 

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will a separate button for the starter fix this problem?

No, you're not the only one paranoid about this, just more than others :haha::haha: It is a real problem though. :yup:
I have an old or rebuilt switch with the relay and mine stuck on the other day and I'm surprised the starter still works, it took a while to figure out what the noise was, I thought maybe i had blown a transmission part. it ran for several minutes like that. I couldn't shut it off. I put it in gear and stalled it. then it it started up and went home.
I'm wondering if i put a button somewhere for the starter, will that solve the problem? I'm an electrician so wiring is no problem. do I just feed the relay positive coil wire from the positive fed button and leave the ignition switches other functions alone?
 

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I'm deferring to the guys that really know this stuff. For now I've, once again, experienced this issue. And as I suspected earlier this year, I cannot place my hands on my sketch of the ignition changes I made. It's not evident what wires go where as I've wrapped them in looms and incorporated them in the harness.

Then my electric fuel pump isn't getting power. And now my dash seems to be dead. Yet, the engine will crank, catch, and run. But with what sounds like my new OGTS high-torque starter remaining engaged.

As a side: The new improved starter is so much easier to install because the body is smaller diameter and one does not need wobble-extinctions to install the two main bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have an old or rebuilt switch with the relay and mine stuck on the other day and I'm surprised the starter still works, it took a while to figure out what the noise was, I thought maybe i had blown a transmission part. it ran for several minutes like that. I couldn't shut it off. I put it in gear and stalled it. then it it started up and went home.
I'm wondering if i put a button somewhere for the starter, will that solve the problem? I'm an electrician so wiring is no problem. do I just feed the relay positive coil wire from the positive fed button and leave the ignition switches other functions alone?
Do you have an "OTTO Start" relay on your ignition system? If you do, that is the problem as I experienced the same thing you did! Once I removed the relay, it has worked perfect!...

Keep in mind that the switch will burn out quicker but now that OGTS has them, I won't worry about it. No more than I drive the GT, I'm simply not worried about it...
 

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70opelGT1
I think you have the right idea. My switch is going into fail mode. The first couple of times it would not start I took a long screwdriver and shorted the starter across the hot lug and the relay positive on the drivers side of the starter. Got tired of opening the hood to do this so I hooked up a starter button by running a couple of wires thru the firewall and putting alligator clips on them, then hook the clips to the parts I was shorting across. Wire a starter button to the other ends. Now I turn on the key and see if the starter will engage, if not I hit the starter button and she starts spinning. This will work until I get the notion to drop the column and fix the switch. How do I know this. It worked for three years or so before I got the get up and go to fix it the last time it failed. That fact that is so simple is why I am baffled as to why people butchered up their wiring like was done on Todd Bowie's GT. As West Coast said I am sure I will some day be referred too as that S.O.B.ing P.O.
 
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