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Member
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Discussion Starter #1
We, as a group, need to establish fair market value for our Opels. I'm just now looking into insurance and the issue has come up. I've had two GTs totaled by drivers in rear ended collisions. Both times I had traditional policys, liability/medical only and adjusters have claimed the car was totaled and offered $800 to $1000. In California they hand you a check for what they think is a fair value and tow your car away.

So, I would like to be able to state up front what the value of the car is. Unfortunately I cannot simply claim the amount I've spent on it. It needs to be what the car would sell for on the fair market, in an arm's length transaction (both parties not under duress, or having close connection).

I propose a consensus approach where we list each model (year really is not a factor with cars this old) and each of us submit our estimate of fair market value (what you would pay to acquire it) for:
Not running / parts car / rust
Not running - potential restoration
Running - poor condition
Running - average condition
Running - good condition
Running - excellent condition
Running - best of show
Running - modified for track

Ideas? Comments? Alternatives?
Possibly establish and populate a database of sales.
 

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Detritus Maximus
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2,325 Posts
Now if this ain't a can of worms...

How long ago were your GTs wrecked? Mine was hit in 2000 and Allstate set the value at about $2100. I had a normal policy.This is the same car you see in my album. Rusty but dead straight when I bought it.
The value was based on the Collector Car value guide, plus the new parts receipts. Allstate allows for one half of the total recipts for the last year to be added to the 'condition' value. In other words, if you have a rust bucket valued at $500, but you just put in a $2000 motor, then it's $500 plus $1000.

There is some leeway and subjective valuation in old car values. If you want to argue with them.

Compile a record of Ebay sales, both here and in Europe. Also, compile a record of For Sale ads, usually from printed sources (newspapers/Hemmings/etc), whether or not you have any follow-up info as to the actual sale price.
Documented sales and ads are a really good tool.

Any documented appraisals on known cars.
 

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Registered
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I've already talked to my insurance company, State Farm, about this, mainly because I've got over $35,000 in Willit? over the past 6.5 years and still adding to it. I will say a lot of that was fabrication and modifying the the midificatons. They told me all I have to do is produce the reciepts for what I purchased, along with an estimate of the hours expended and they will write me up a policy to cover it. Of course I'd have to pay an exhorbitant price for the insurance policy. I went through a similar problem with the monza a couple of years ago. The insurance of the guy that T-boned me wanted to total the car for $1100. I told them to pack sand, so they gave me the cash and I kept the car. The big thing here is to have a base line like the one Charles Goin (goinmanta) has already put on the site, then figure out a price to match the car.
 

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Trouble Maker
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Take a look at this thread.

Nothing scares me more then leaving it up to the insurance company. I really feel that the only safe way to go is with an appraisal and agreed value through a collector car insurance.

I know that they have limits to mileage and it cannot be your only form of transportation, but I believe that it neccessary. Personally, I have not looked into the cost of insuring my car as I have yet to get it appraised or running/rolling, but it's getting close.

And no matter what the insurance company says stated value is not the same as agreed value.
 

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Opel Addicts
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Are you under insured?

GT's are undervalued, especially for insurance purposes. (Remember, repairing or restoring it to the condition it is in costs more than buying another one and starting over, especially with body shop prices) We have agreed value on Allen's car that got hit. However, after taking it to body shops for estimate, we are pretty sure we have it underinsured. The insurance company adjuster (the other guy's insurance company not ours) already is suggesting totalling it.

However, you should never just "take" what the insurance company wants to give you. There are ways to get the true value of your car, even if you do not have a current appraisal. Here in Akron, in the classic car community, there are appraisers who can give you a "post-accident" appraisal. They can look at the car and give you a true value rather than the $2,500 the insurance company might want to give you.

In order to restore your car, it has to cost 80% or less than the appraised value. I believe most of us are underinsured for replacement purposes. My suggestion is to get a professional appraisal (here in Akron it costs about $250 per car) and then go through a classic car company for agreed value. ''

We are planning to take the rest of our cars (when we can afford it) and get a baseline appraisal. Then we will be increasing our insurance levels on each car.

Vickie

P.S. One of the things the appraiser mentioned that we often don't consider in determining value is that GT's are a "limited production", which increases the value
 

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'72 Opel GT (Sara)
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My policy with Progressive.com expires next month. Based on the info I learned in the thread that Phoenix linked to, I plan to go to State Farm to get an Agreed Value policy on my GT (or at least a quote due to the fact that the car is still being restored). While this may be naive and I have no idea what quote I will get, my plan was to simply state that I want the GT insured for $30K Agreed Value. If someone totals my car after the restoration is complete, I expect a check for $30K. As further "leverage" I plan to move my insurance on the Solstice and Intrigue to State Farm, my homeowners insurance (which is with Travelers right now), and get an umbrella policy (lawsuits scare me). I hope that entire package will be attractive to an agent and I'll get a good deal including my $30K Agreed Value on the GT. Again, maybe I don't understand how this works since this is new territory for me but that's my current plan. I'll be happy to post what I learn after I speak with an agent.

Matt
 

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Curve Crazy GT
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399 Posts
I had my Car appraised lat year. The guy came out to my house and appraised it. After all said and done he came up with the value of around $4,100. I have it insured From state farm and in agreement if anything happens that it gets totaled i get a check of $4,500. and i guess im happy with that. But i hope that day never comes!
 

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'72 Opel GT (Sara)
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I had my Car appraised lat year. The guy came out to my house and appraised it. After all said and done he came up with the value of around $4,100. I have it insured From state farm and in agreement if anything happens that it gets totaled i get a check of $4,500. and i guess im happy with that. But i hope that day never comes!
Is this a Stated Value or Agreed Value policy? Do you know if you could have used an amount higher than the appraisal amount (assuming you were willing to pay a higher premium)? I think these two points are at the heart of the confusion (for me anyway).
 

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Trouble Maker
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We all hope that day never arrives. Partly because things never really work out as well as we would hope.

Make sure that everyone reads that link about the difference between Agreed Value and Stated Value that is linked in the other thread. I'll tell you how Stated Value works though.

They get a value amount to base your policy on. You supply it. It can be anything. Upon having an accident they will look at that amount. If your in an accident where your car is totaled they will give you that amount or the value of the car based on market value, which ever is less. So, if you put down that you want 10,000 on it and they market value is 8,000, then 8,000 is all that your going to get. By the same token, if you put 10,000 and the market value is 12,000, then again, all your going to get is 10,000.

That is why you need Agreed Value and not stated value. With Agreed Value, you get what both parties agree on.

As far as I know, only collector car insurance, provides it. But like I said I haven't looked into get it yet, because my car is still on jackstands.

Please take a look at this in addition.
 

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Trouble Maker
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Oh, I especailly like the part at the end where it says,

"It all adds up to more money for Economical, which has posted record profits in each of the last two years, charging its customers $550 million more in auto insurance premiums during that time than it paid out in claims."

Some insurance company that I've never heard of makes 550 million in PROFITS. Just imagine what the big boys make.
 

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Super Moderator
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3,133 Posts
Collector Car Insurance

I have my insurance through Grundy, which is a collector car insurance company. They use an "agreed value" policy. The company and myself agreed that it was worth $10,000 so if the car is ever totalled, I get a check for $10,000, no questions asked! There are a few restrictions on the car but they are restrictions I can easily live with.
 

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Curve Crazy GT
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399 Posts
Is this a Stated Value or Agreed Value policy? Do you know if you could have used an amount higher than the appraisal amount (assuming you were willing to pay a higher premium)? I think these two points are at the heart of the confusion (for me anyway).

It is an Agreed Value. IT has Classic car insurance on it. I was going to Go threw Hagerty to get it but my regular state farm insurer said they would match it. I pay $145 every 6 months and have a limit of 5000 miles a year, because i stated it as a weekend driver.. i never put on that many anyway..

So if it ever gets wrecked I get the $4,500 no questions asked!

unless of course i get in a really tight situation, and my car just so happens to get "stolen" and smashed into a tree.:lmao:
 

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Opeler
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748 Posts
I've got Hagerty. My Manta and GT are covered for $6000 each. They're registered as classics so I'm not supposed to use them as daily drivers, which I don't. Cost is $190/yr. for both which includes the $56 for Michigan's "catastrophic claims surcharge". Good deal I think.
Don
 

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Member
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635 Posts
NO Hassles from HAGERTY and stated value replacement

We, as a group, need to establish fair market value for our Opels. I'm just now looking into insurance and the issue has come up. I've had two GTs totaled by drivers in rear ended collisions. Both times I had traditional policys, liability/medical only and adjusters have claimed the car was totaled and offered $800 to $1000. In California they hand you a check for what they think is a fair value and tow your car away.

So, I would like to be able to state up front what the value of the car is. Unfortunately I cannot simply claim the amount I've spent on it. It needs to be what the car would sell for on the fair market, in an arm's length transaction (both parties not under duress, or having close connection).

I propose a consensus approach where we list each model (year really is not a factor with cars this old) and each of us submit our estimate of fair market value (what you would pay to acquire it) for:
Not running / parts car / rust
Not running - potential restoration
Running - poor condition
Running - average condition
Running - good condition
Running - excellent condition
Running - best of show
Running - modified for track

Ideas? Comments? Alternatives?
Possibly establish and populate a database of sales.
My personal GT is insured by Hagerty Classic Auto Insurance
When I changed from 21st Century all I had to do is send email jpegs of my GT to Hagerty and told them that my GT would cost me $26,000.00 to replace if it got "totaled out" To build another like mine with AC all leather interior 5 speed 2.0L beefed up engine stainless steel exhaust all new suspension 14 inch rims and tires custom $5,000.00 paint job, new chrome all around crack free dash and steering wheel new OEM outside mirrors stereo new carpets leather seats good original vinyl door panels hundreds of hours of labor etc .... I mean I really gave them a COMPLETE inventory of what it takes to rebuild one of these GT's SO they said OK it is insured for $26,000.00and my yearly premium is about $90.00 including road side service (towing).
I had a claim last year and it went so SMOOTH there wasn't so much as a speed bump in the road they paid quickly and with a smile "so glad we could help" type of attitude.

They get many new customers from referrals becsause they are that good

I do believe last I looked a NADA the Opel GT was $3,000.00 $5,000.00 and $8,000.00 for good better best conditions. If I had my way it would be $7,000.00, $10,000.00, $13,000.00 as I have always contended that our CLASSIC Opels are WAY TOO underpriced. I have sold them for $300.00 to $20,000.00 so the average GT should be around $10,000.00 right?

Data for sales is not always accurate as some cars that have been sold have a lowered price on the bill of sale to save on sales tax.
I heard that the Kelly Blue Book gets its data from the DMV's and sets lower values as a result of this data.
STATED VALUE or AGREED VALUE is the only way to go
 

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Opeler
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I've got Hagerty too. In Michigan as well. I registered my car as an historical vehicle which makes my insurance less as I don't have to pay the catostrophic claims "tax". According to the state I'm not supposed to drive it as normal transportation. I flat out told Hagerty I'd be driving it quite a bit. They could care less, that's the state's thing they told me and they are leading a drive to loosen up the state's historical vehicle usage "laws". I set the value at $5,000, I don't know if that's AV or what to be honest with you. I'll go look it up.
I have since been told that if you have a pair (must be two) matching plates from the year of your vehicle you can register those plates for your car, one time registration, no usage limitations. The state won't tell you this (because they don't make as much money). Most of the classic cars in Michigan are registered this way I guess. Sorry, getting OT.
 

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Member
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Discussion Starter #16
I called Haggerty this afternoon. Everything was going fine until we talked about annual miles. 5000 was the limit for them. Because I'm taking this car to the national Route 66 event I'm looking at 4000 miles just for that trip. Plus I expect higher than normal miles for this 1st year because Its been garage-bound for five years.

So, looks like it will be Stated Value with antique car insurance through a traditional company for the 1st six months, then I'll switch to Haggerty after the national meet.

The kicker is I don't even drive my daily driver 7k miles per year. I work in my home office, have ceased all field work, and don't go anywhere. Plus, with five cars to choose from, any one of is lucky to break 7k miles in any given year. I haven't driven my daily driver since last Sunday (5 days).

Bummer - I was looking forward to driving the GT over the Holiday Weekend.

PS - Am I seeing things? I could have sworn I saw "Baz's SpellCheck" on the buttom below the Reply To Thread message box the other night - now it's gone back to just SpellCheck

Baz - were you being bad?
 

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Opel Addicts
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I called Haggerty this afternoon. Everything was going fine until we talked about annual miles. 5000 was the limit for them. Because I'm taking this car to the national Route 66 event I'm looking at 4000 miles just for that trip. Plus I expect higher than normal miles for this 1st year because Its been garage-bound for five years.
[/B]

With Condon and Skelley, if you know you are doing a show or shows that are really far away, you can write and request additional mileage for the year. But you have to write the letter and have it approved before you go. We just got extra mileage approved for two of our cars for Carlisle and Route 66.

Vickie
 

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Super Moderator
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I called Haggerty this afternoon. Everything was going fine until we talked about annual miles. 5000 was the limit for them.[/B]
Like I had said in a previous post, I use Grundy Collector Car Insurance and they have unlimited mileage. They just say you can not use it for a Daily Driver and it must be kept indoors when not being used. Another restriction is that no one under the age of 25 can drive it. Sounds good to me! For $10,000 agreed value, it costs me about $100 a year.
 

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'72 Opel GT (Sara)
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Like I had said in a previous post, I use Grundy Collector Car Insurance and they have unlimited mileage. They just say you can not use it for a Daily Driver and it must be kept indoors when not being used. Another restriction is that no one under the age of 25 can drive it. Sounds good to me! For $10,000 agreed value, it costs me about $100 a year.
Mileage won't be an issue for me and neither will garaging the car nor the 25 year old age restriction (my wife and I are just a little over that and my 15 year old won't be going near this car for another decade at least :D ). It's the definition of "daily driver" that will probably affect me. I plan to drive my car four days a week to work and occasional pleasure use on the weekends. With two other cars to be used for all other driving, does that make the GT my daily driver?
 

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Opeler
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I have since been told that if you have a pair (must be two) matching plates from the year of your vehicle you can register those plates for your car, one time registration, no usage limitations. The state won't tell you this (because they don't make as much money). Most of the classic cars in Michigan are registered this way I guess. Sorry, getting OT.[/QUOTE]

As far as I know you only need the one rear plate - that's all I have on my cars although I did buy the plates in pairs. MI only requires a rear plate on all cars these days. You just have to send a xerox of the plate in with the application. $35 bucks and they're registered forever.

As far as use of the vehicle the "historical plate" useage rules do still apply. However they're kind of vague - parades, shows, not for regular transportation, etc. I drive all over including Carlisle and Springfield (they are shows after all) on the plates and have never been stopped. If asked you can always say you were at a show, a cruise, the Opel Club meeting, coming back from your mechanic's shop, just got done tuning it, or....

I was told by a clerk at the Secretary of State that people reported getting tickets for things like stopping for ice cream but that's just hearsay. I've never run into anyone who's had a problem driving with vintage plates.

Don
 
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