[GoinManta]

OK I have done too much thinking on this project. And my thoughts were scattered in one post with a title that didnt quite fit. So here is all the info I have on doing a ManZuki or such Suzuki Opel mating.

Anyway, the reasons for this are simple. Parts are cheap, it adds HP (100 HP is goal), Gas Mileage (Targeting 30 MPG), and lightens the car improving handling.. or at least thats the idea.

You can bolt any of these to the Geo Tracker or Samuari Tranny. Also will need to use a tracker/Samurai oil pan. FOr more info:

http://www.ado13.com/dohczuke/dohc.htm

The three motors I am looking at are:

94 Suzuki Swift GT - Twin cam, 16 valve, Port Fuel Injected, 4 clyinder, 1.3L motor.

Specs: 100 HP @ 6500, 83 Ft/lb @5000 - MPG 29/36

88 Chevy Sprint - a 1.0L 3cly, single cam, intercooled turbo.

Specs: 70 HP, 107 ft/lb - MPG 37/43

95 Geo Tracker - 1.6L SOHC

Specs: 95 HP @ 6000, 99 ft/lb @ 3000 - MPG 25

Apparently a intake manifold exists that can hold a weber 32/36 downdraft and eliminate the EFI.

Looking at weights..

The GTs Curb weight is : 2105

The Mantas Curb weight is : 2232

94' Swift is: 1951 lbs

88' Sprint is: 1620 lbs

95' Geo Tracker : 2339 lbs

The Opel 1.9L wieghs about 275 (according to Bob), the tranny wieghs 75 (Shipped a few). That's 350 lbs. Add alternator, manifolds, etc.. we are looking at about 400 lbs. For the drivetrain.. according to teamswift.net consensous there is the entire 1.6L DOHC drivetrain with accessories wieghs in at around 250 lbs. Lets call it 275 due to the Samuaris tranny. We save 125 lbs of the front of the Manta/GT, bringing our weight close to that of the Swift. Heck and the swift had A/C, etc.. so that can be added to the engine.

Assuming 2250 lbs for a Manta and 56% front weight bias (1260 lbs), reducing the engine weight by 150 lbs (to 1110 lbs) will drop the total weight to 2100, and change the front bias to about 52%. Should make for a nice handling car I'd think. Thats based on teh 1.6L DOHC, the 1.0L Turbo is probably a bit lighter.

Now gearing.. How much are the larger gears in the Samuari going to affect 0-60? Better or worse?

The trannys ratios:

'74 Opel Manta - 3.428 / 2.156 / 1.366 / 1.00 (Edited per Bobs Post)

'94 FWD Tranny in the Swift are 3.41/1.89/1.28/.914/.757

'88 Samuari RWD Tranny 3.65/1.94/1.42/1.0/.795

'95 Geo Tracker 3.65/1.95/1.38/1.0/.86

Can handle the power of the dual cam 1.3B better.

Performance:

There are headers and computer chips available for the Suzuki motor. Also you can use Nissan throttle bodies, they bolt on. So supposedly it's VERY easy to get over 125 HP from it and about 100 ft/lbs of torque from this little dynomo.. with only bolt on mods. Which in our GTs and Mantas should be real fun especially since they will be lighter anyway.

The final drive gear is 4.10 on the Sprint and Swift. (3.44 for most Mantas)

94' Swift

Tires 175/70r14 (2% taller)

MPG : 29 city / 36 highway

0-30 MPH - 2.6 Secs
0-40 MPH - 4.5 Secs
0-50 MPH - 6.3 Secs
0-60 MPH - 8.3 Secs
0-70 MPH - 11.5 Secs
0-80 MPH - 14.6 Secs
1/4 Mile time - 16.6 @ 84.7mph

95' Geo Tracker:

Tires: 195/75R15 ( 14.5% Taller )
MPG: 25
o-60 in 7.1 sec.
1/4 mile - 1.40 @ 98 mph

Not bad... and a better judge of what the Manta or GT can do since its transmission is the one I will use.

One more thing to note for anyone thinking of this conversion:

The 1.6L DOHC, Suzuki Motor with a turbo setup, can get close to 200 HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque and quite streetable. Apparently most the big power is high up in the RPM range (6000-8000), but with all the mods the HP and torque at the lower 2000-4000 is markedly improved over stock as well. Supposedly with the turbo setup, and cam, etc... gas mileage in mixed driving is still in the 30 MPG range !!

Without Turbo, they get like 150/140... Thats a lot of HP form that little damn motor. again stays in the 30+ range for mileage.

Also there are claims a 1.0L 3cly. Turbo (Stock gets 37 city / 43 hwy), with the right mods gets into the 105 HP and 125 fl/lb range with only a minor amount of work. He said he has a Sprint that dynoed 100 / 115 at the wheels and still got 30+ city, and 40+ highway on premium.. !!!!

So there it is.. I think a good base for anyone thinking of doing a Suzuki conversion.. Now anyone able to do the math? What could I expect the Mantas preformance to be if I don't modify the engines in any way..
How does that compare to the current gearing.. ?

 

[opelgt73]

What kind of MPG numbers do you realisticly get with a stock manta?

The weights seem farily close but I think the drag coef. would have more influence on final MPG.

 

[oldopelguy]

not to be contrary, but...

The Tracker/Vitara 1.6 and 2.0 motors are the "big block" Suzuki motors and they have a slightly different mounting pattern than the smaller 1.3 and 1.0 motors, from what I understand. However, if you do get one of these bigger motors, and it is from an auto tranny truck, get the bell housing too and you can use it with your current Opel automatic tranny. How's that for a wierd twist?

 

[RallyBob]

The trannys ratios:

'74 Opel Manta - 3.640 / 2.120 / 1.336 / 1.00

Charles, those are the ratios for a European 1.6 litre-equipped Manta.

All the US 1.9 litres got 3.428/2.156/1.366/1.00 ratios with their 4-speeds. Not a huge difference, but worth mentioning.

Bob

 

[GoinManta]

The Tracker/Vitara 1.6 and 2.0 motors are the "big block" Suzuki motors and they have a slightly different mounting pattern than the smaller 1.3 and 1.0 motors, from what I understand. However, if you do get one of these bigger motors, and it is from an auto tranny truck, get the bell housing too and you can use it with your current Opel automatic tranny. How's that for a wierd twist?

Tranny mounting pattern? OR engine mounting?

Oh thats right.. !! It's a TH180 tranny aint it ? I forgot all about that..

That would make for a very easy conversion.. if you have a Auto GT or Manta... especially if you went with the Weber conversion adapter and put a 32/36 on it.

Charles

 

[GoinManta]

What kind of MPG numbers do you realisticly get with a stock manta?

The weights seem farily close but I think the drag coef. would have more influence on final MPG.

Depending on tune, etc.. I used to get 20-24 in mixed driving. Darg on the Manta and the GT are really quite good, especially compared to the Geo Tracker. The Swift has a super low CD, the Sprint is good too but not as good. I would think the GTs is better than the Sprint, and close to the Swift. The 1.1L in the GT can pull close to 40 MPG itself.

I think it would be really cool to put a 1.0L Turbo into a 1.1L GT, it would wiegh in at about the same wieght (The 1.1L GT wieghs 1863 lbs vs 1565 for the Sprint), but almost double the torque (107 vs 55) and up the horsepower a good bit (Again 70 vs 50). Be real curious what the gas mileage on that would be.. I can see it besting the Sprints 37/43.

Since we are on the subject of doing this conversion purely for MPG.

1988 Chevy Sprint
Curb Wieght = 1565
Tires: 145/70r12 (16% shorter than GT or Manta)

1.0L (non turbo) - Metro model (Different tune it would seem)
46 HP - 78 ft/lb
MPG = 54 City / 58 Highway

1.0L (non turbo) - Std. Coupe
48 HP - 77 ft/lb
MPG = 44 City / 49 Highway

So if you can find that cheap base model Metro, that would be a REAL interesting swap into a 1.1L GT. I actaully know where a ragged out 1.1L GT is local to me (or at least was a while ago.)

More modern Geo Metro

1995 Geo Metro (2 Door)
Curb: 1808 (almost exact to 1.1L GT)
Tires: 155/80r13 (1.9% Smaller)

1.0L (non-turbo)
55 HP - 58 ft/lb (Heres the missing "fun" factor between the Sprint and Metro)
MPG = 44 City / 49 Highway

1995 Geo Metro (Sedan)
Curb: 1940
Tires: 155/80r13 (1.9% Smaller)

1.3L (4 cly)
70 HP - 74 ft/lb
MPG = 39 City / 43 Highway

This is the one that is interesting for a purely MPG for the Manta:

Manta Curb : 2250 (-150lb savings on engine) = 2100 or about 100 lbs difference between the Metro sedan and Manta.

Since I have the lighter AL rims I will stick with them and put 175/70r14s on the Manta (Close to that of the 155/80r13 or the Metro).

The low compression motors are not much better than the 70/74 rating, I think Bob is quoted somewhere as saying they were in teh MId 60s at the flywheel for HP and low 70s for torque. So you wouldn't lose any power.

So overall depending on gearing (I would try to dig up a 3.67 rear for the Manta as well if I were being hard core on the MPG), etc.. USing this motor on a Manta would get mixed driving results in the mid 30s to low 40s on the highway.

Charles

 

[baz]

anyone got a pic of an opel bellhousing in there files? and a centres for the 2 top holes i may have another engine to put in the ring
cheap plentiful and easy to get bits for but i want to check first if it will bolt on to an opel box but it seams the local scally wags have had all the alloy bits out of my shed from my last cih motor

 

[neuropel]

The Tracker/Vitara 1.6 and 2.0 motors are the "big block" Suzuki motors and they have a slightly different mounting pattern than the smaller 1.3 and 1.0 motors, from what I understand. However, if you do get one of these bigger motors, and it is from an auto tranny truck, get the bell housing too and you can use it with your current Opel automatic tranny. How's that for a wierd twist?

How much power do these engines make? What a cool project. I wonder how they would line up?

 

[azopelnut]

So overall depending on gearing (I would try to dig up a 3.67 rear for the Manta as well if I were being hard core on the MPG), etc.. USing this motor on a Manta would get mixed driving results in the mid 30s to low 40s on the highway.

Charles[/QUOTE]
If you were going for mileage then the 3.18 would be the better choice not a 3.67 or our typical 3.44

 

[GoinManta]

If you were going for mileage then the 3.18 would be the better choice not a 3.67 or our typical 3.44

Doh..

Hmm... since the final drive on the Geos are about 4.1, wonder what that does for MPG and accelloration.. since these cars arent the fastest in the world. At least on the 1.0L SOHC and 1.3L SOHC motors anyway..

Charles

 

[GoinManta]

How much power do these engines make? What a cool project. I wonder how they would line up?

95 Geo Tracker - 1.6L SOHC
Specs: 95 HP @ 6000, 99 ft/lb @ 3000 - MPG 25

Didn't look new enough to find the 2.0L I had thought the 1.6L was it..

Anyway here it is.. and again, losing on teh MPG, but all of a sudden we have a lightsetup already in RWD form with much more power than our Opel motors.

2000 Suzuki Vitara
JLS trim Curb: 2690 (400+/- heavier than a Manta)
JLX trim Curb: 2811 (600+/- heavier than a Manta)

This motor is in the 1999-2003 (Chevrolet Tracker/Suzuki Vitara)
2.0L - DOHC 16V I4
127 HP @ 6000 RPM
134 ft/lb @ 3000 RPM
MPG 23/25

This motor in some 1996-1998 JS Sidekicks
(Most were 4WD, some were 2WD and you will need 2WD tranny)

1.8L - DOHC 16V I4
120 @ 5600 RPM
122 @ 4400 RPM
MPG 23/25

(Std motor in 1991 - 1998 Tracker/Sidekick, 1999/low end Vitara)
1.6L - 97 hp I4 - 16V SOHC
97 HP @ 5200 RPM (only 80 in early models)
103 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM (only 95 in early models)
MPG 25/28
NOte the

The Suzuki Sidekick/Vitara - Geo/Chevy Tracker is something MUCH easier to find that the 1.3L DOHC, but I assume it wieghs a bit more and the wieght savings won't be as drastic as they were with the 1.3L motors.

That said, thes baby SUVs that have the CD of a Brick, bigger knobby tires, and wiegh a good bit more, are getting 25/28 MPG !!

SO I would think.. the 2.0L with 125 HP/134 ft lbs of torque would be a slightly lighter motor than the Manta 1.9L, have a modern EFI, DOHC motor, 5 Speed, HF134A A/C system, etc... and get the Manta up to 30+ MPG..

Much more power, lighter, and unlike a 3.4L or other V6 conversion (that won't have a lot more power than this anyway), it will be lighter and get better gas mileage.

I think I will be hunting for a wrecked Vitara or Tracker now..

Steve what about this:

2003-2004 Suzuki Vitara/Chevrolet Tracker
Curb: 2900+

2.5L DOHC 24V V-6
165 HP
162 ft/lbs
MPG 19-22

Any idea of size and such on them? They only seem to list them with a 4 spd Auto for the Tracker, but the Vitara does list a 5 speed as std..

I will have to go and check those out as well. They probably like all suzuki products are all aluminium. So they should be no heaver than the Opel 1.9L motor.

Charles

 

[CARodabaugh]

Geo Tracker...

I am very intruiged by the material in this thread. To fill you in a bit I am doing quite a bit of research on the G16KV 1.6L that is in my '96 Tracker, and I fell upon this page during my quest. I would like to inquire, to the ones who are involved on this page, about the 2.0 L from the later models/Vitira and my 1.6 L. Does anyone know how andvanced of a swap this will be, other than the wiring??? Will the stock engine mounts match up, etc.?

This past Monday, on my way to college for the first time in two years due to a bike wreck, the 1.6 overheated. I drove 25 mile with it acting fine, the I hit the Interstate and all heck broke loose. I got to the shoulder a.s.a.p.. It was due to frozen water in the bottom of the radiator and a lack of proper antifreeze.

I will be pulling the head off of my motor tomorrow and will know afterwards the extent of damage that the overheating had caused. Hopefully it, will be just the head gasket. This motor has 200,000 on it, yet has been mantained very well since I have owned it for 6 1/2 years. Due to the amount of time that it took to overheat (w/o temp. guage rising over center), and the symptoms: plastic radiator top tank split, plug wires almost fused to the plugs ( the electrode was melted down on the rear cylinder) , and once plugs were removed and the ignition was turned I saw a tablespoon or two of coolant spray from the rear cylinder.

I have the option of rebuilding the motor for $350-$500 American dollars, trying to afford a remanufactured motor for $2,000, or buying a used car (which is as bad of a gamble as spinning the chamber drum on a revolver with on bullet). This car/Tracker has been a wonderful and versitle vehicle. My wife has ran it into a guard rail and she has ran it off of the road without anything but a blown tire and a fist sized dent by the rear bumper. It will hold 5 people or hual trash to the dump. But what do I do with the situation that I am faced with and it's milalege? Rebuild, Reset, or Read the sales papers for a new used car?

Thank you for your time and consideration-Chris 24yo SC,USA :thanks:

 

[ScottVIBC]

2003-2004 Suzuki Vitara/Chevrolet Tracker
Curb: 2900+

2.5L DOHC 24V V-6
165 HP
162 ft/lbs
MPG 19-22

Any idea of size and such on them? They only seem to list them with a 4 spd Auto for the Tracker, but the Vitara does list a 5 speed as std..

I will have to go and check those out as well. They probably like all suzuki products are all aluminium. So they should be no heaver than the Opel 1.9L motor.

Charles

Sorry about the necro post, but it is going to be chock full of the information you were asking for. I came across a site for a guy who was plotting on putting the H25A (Engine code for the Suzuki V6 family) into a Toyota Starlet, and thought I could bother him for the dimensions:

540mm long (includes water fitting at the rear and pulleys & stuff at the friont)
530mm wide, not including the exhaust manifolds.
610mm tall with everything.
460mm from the bottom of the block to the top of the cam covers.

The sump of the pan is at the very rear of the block.

Next, since he did not know the weight of the engine, I contacted Titan Aircraft which use the H25A as an optional engine in their scale P-51 Mustang replicas. I knew they would have some weight figures, and this is what they shared:

"The dry weight of the engine with the conversion kit ready to install is 315 lbs. Our firewall installation, prop and everything is around 400 lbs. The barebones without the conversion kit is between 260 - 270 lbs."

So, I am figuring that the engine, with accessories probably tips in at around 300 lbs. Transmissions are the dark part in my knowledge; I do not know their weight or size.

Anyways, Suzuki also made a 2.7L version, which makes 180 hp, and 180 ft-lbs that went into the Grand Vitara, and the first generation XL-7. But almost all of those were mated to Autos. However, it will mate up with the 2.5's manual tranny.
Downside, I have learned from my Suzuki nut friend, that the engine uses several computers, up to 4 for the later model Grand Vitaras with the auto trannies. Switching to a custom ECU might be a worthwhile idea if only to cut down on cable clutter.

I hope this information proves useful.