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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got a manual 74 manta and I've been trying to tune it. All the books I have say that when you are timing the motor you try to get a small steel ball in the fly wheel to line up with the tip of the arrow. Now when I try to time my car I see a threaded hole, but no ball, and the hole is and the base of the arrow, not at the point. So I'm wondering if the distributer might be 180 degrees off, or is the hole at the base of the arrow the same as the ball at the tip. Thanks for any help.

Brett
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey thanks for the help, but I figured it out. The flywheel was really rusty so it was hard to see the little ball, so I took some pliers with steel wool on in and cleaned off the flywheel with it running. Then I took the fan shroud off so I could get a socket on the crank nut and turned it so I could see the mark, then I used a white paint pen to make it stand out. My timing was way off. But now finally I can try out my gunsons color tune, and see if now I can get a nice blue flame. Doubtful but I'll try.
 

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You might try removing the spark plugs and turning the crank over by hand to look for the ball. I remove the coil wire just to make sure that no inadvertant sparks flys.

The number 1 cylinder wire should be over the slot in your distributor and the steel ball should be lined up with the timing mark when the rotor cap is pointing in that direction.

I don't know if you have a picture, but here is what it should look like when it is lined up on a 1.9 engine. I think the timing marks moved to the front in 75, but I'm not sure.
 

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i have never been able to see the ball will a timing light on my car
so i alway tune by ear and how well it starts
first i get running and i advance the distributor untill i starts runnign smother and rpm comes up
next i tighten the bolt back just enough so i can stil turn it but it holds the distribtor in place
i turn the car off and then try to start it again if it doesnt want to start without pumping the gas its too advanced
i have a gt so it easy but i open the window and crank the engine over while slowly turning the distributor clockwise to retard the timing till it starts
i shut it of again and try to start it in the same position
if thats good i usually advance it just a little and tighten it down
this id usually good for starting and low rpm response and if it idles to low or high i adjust accordingly
this way works for me
also with the petronix conversion i have done it twice i have had to advance the distributor at least 5 to 10 degreesfurther than the points for it to work
 

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crank

I like to paint a mark on the front pully that lines-up with the timing marks on the distributer part of the timing chain cover. That way I can get close without the adventure of finding the ball.

Also, if you have the motor and trans apart for any reason, pull the flywheel and paint the back of it. I use white, generally, with a bright red or orange for the ball. It makes the process so much easier!
 

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I've got a timing light that has a knob on it that advances the firing of the timing light up to 60 degrees. A really neat gadget, you can line up the timing marks on any engine with the knob and then check to see how far advanced you are in the timing. If you are retarded you can hook up the induction pickup to the plug wire that fires before #1 and then advance the light to see how far off you are. I've used this scenario to find timing marks that were otherwise impossible to find. HTH

Ron
 

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Just to let you know- I set the gap on the spark plugs, set the gap on the Blue Streaks at .017, got the dwell to 48 degrees, super timed off of the fly wheel, set the Weber carb to factory specs, put it on the street and it ran like CRAP. Retimed the ignition to about 1/2 inch forward on the distributor and noe it runs perfect. Don't go by factory specs on a 32 year old engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'vt got my car timed to the factory specs, with the ball at the needle now, but everytime I jsut barely touch the throttle, a flame shoots up through the top of the carb. I'm running the stock solex and I've turned the mixture screw all the way in and all the way out, but I still get the hesitation with the back fire. Any ideas?? Thanks

Brett
 

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74Manta;
Sounds like your timing (cam gear) is off a few teeth. Any time you get blow back, is because the valves are open at the wrong time. you might have to set your timing marks at the fly wheel manually, then pull the valve cover and the front cam cover and see if the cam gear mark is correctly lined up.
 

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vacuum lines?

You didn't try to set the timing with the vacuum lines still connected to the distributer, did you? You might also want to double check that the right hose is going to the right port(s). Do a search for vacuum lines if you're unsure.

There could also be a bigger issue with the distributor, like a broken or unattached spring, but that involves a bit more trouble-shooting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I timed it with the lines off. I dont' see how the cam gear could be off a few teeth, I'm pretty sure the engine has never been apart, and I dont' see how it could ever jump a tooth. It will only blow back when I quicky hit the throttle, after the initial flame and hesitation it will rev jsut fine. So it only happen from an idle. I've got a pertronics installed as well. Just trying to get this car on the road before I head back to school. I'd love to take it with me so it jsut needs to make the 40 min trip

Brett
 

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Basically here's what happens when you get on the throttle fast from idle: Throttle plate slams open and dumps manifold vacuum; the timing was already at max vacuum advance, so, no vacuum, full vacuum timing retard; the accelerator pump dumped in an excess amount of fuel, in the intake manifold, and depending on valve overlap, some of the exhaust from another cylinder entered the intake manifold and ignited the excess gas from the accelerator pump. Possible cure, advance the timing about 5-6 degrees. Just my $.02.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I figure any car that had a weber is a good doner. And they alwasy sell kits of samauris and ebay alwasy has them for sale off of bmw 2002's so they are out there, someone might take it to the junk yard without realizing what it has, and then the junk yard probably wouldn't know either. I guess you just have to look under the hood of all cars. And if you can get one off a car with a similar sized engine, then it might even run.

Brett
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I advanced the timing about half an inch, what I figure to be about 5-6 degrees, and there is no more blow back. It just runs a little rough, hopefully that will clean up with some mixture adjsutment. Thanks.

Brett
 
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