[jeff denton]

Having researched the compression ratio possibilities, and Bob's recent flurry of port shaping, valve sizing and chamber unshrouding, I think I am convinced that I need the 1.6 head. Yes I know they can't be had easily, you know how I love a challenge...
I want to get an early start on the motor that will power the 2006 version of Speedway GT. From what I've learned this year about following the rulebooks, running the wrong head on a 1.9 might be considered downright hilarious if anybody even cared to figure it out! It keeps getting pointed out to me that if I had just a bit more power down the straights, my funny car would be unbeatable. We have only just begun!
Who out there has any advice, any leads, any ideas on how to find a 1.6 head? Aren't they pretty common in Europe? Who there can ship one over to Montana?
Thanks!

 

[kwilford]

Well, A fellow Canadian just bought the only 1.6 Ascona I know of in North America from the original owner in Ft. McMurray Alberta, and shipped it back to Toronto. Rob, what are you planning on doing to that engine?

 

[Rionart]

schitzophrenia

There is a little Angel on my left shoulder saying "keep it original"......and a little devil on my right shoulder saying "16v + Ascona = FUN"
So far the Angel is winning, and the only mods are going to be reversible, albeit I do have a kent fast road cam for the 1.6 lying in the attic gathering dust....
And Keith.....you are a trouble maker!!!.....I keep having visions of a rather cute Kadett joining the fleet thanks to you
PS...I'm sure Otto will fix the title of this post.....

 

[BQS4]

Rob;
Look at it this way they wouldn't have to change the title very much to make it in your name...LOL

 

[RallyBob]

Jeff, you should keep your options open. I agree a 1.6 head would work best, but there's also the 1.7 head, the 1.9H head (small chamber 1.9), and the good old 1.5 head. There is a range from 42-49 cc's roughly between these heads, but with some milling almost any of them is a better choice than a standard 1.9 head.

Happy head-hunting!

 

[jeff denton]

Interesting! I never heard of a 1.7 or a 1.9H. Please tell me more! 1.9H might be considered almost legal maybe... Rules forbid (expressly) using the wrong head, an old Toyota trick, rulebook gives example of using 2200 head on 2400 block. But, who knows?
I chose the 1.6 based on all the posts about it, prefer the 4 bearing cam setup. I expect I'd have to have one shipped from Europe, aren't they pretty common there?
Thank You!

 

[GTJIM (R.I.P.)]

Legal!

The 19H head was used on early 1969 GTs and is near enough to a 1.5 head with 1.9 valves in them. Hope you can find one .........
I have a 1.5 Head waaay out here in Kiwiland but the postage would be prohibitive.

 

[RallyBob]

Interesting! I never heard of a 1.7 or a 1.9H. Please tell me more! 1.9H might be considered almost legal maybe... Rules forbid (expressly) using the wrong head, an old Toyota trick, rulebook gives example of using 2200 head on 2400 block. But, who knows?
I chose the 1.6 based on all the posts about it, prefer the 4 bearing cam setup. I expect I'd have to have one shipped from Europe, aren't they pretty common there?
Thank You!

Jeff, you actually commented on my 1.7 head some time ago in another thread. http://opelgt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45825&postcount=17

The 1.5 head came on US Kadetts in 1968 only (though some heads were cast in '67). In Europe the 1.5 was available from '65-'70, as was the intermediate 1.7 engine on the Rekord. The 1.6 came out in late '70 as the intermediate engine for the European Ascona and Manta (base engine was 1.2 and the 'big block' was the 1.9). Probably was produced until the late '70's but I can't confirm this. As for the 1.9H, this was available in the US on the early '69 GT's. I've had a few in my hands from US Opels, and most likely all the Euro GT's came with the 1.9H head, as did the hi-po twin carb'd Rekord Sprint engine in Europe.

In sequence from smallest to largest combustion chamber, the 1.5/1.6 > 1.7 > 1.9H > 1.9.

Bob

 

[baz]

Interesting! I never heard of a 1.7 or a 1.9H. Please tell me more! 1.9H might be considered almost legal maybe... Rules forbid (expressly) using the wrong head, an old Toyota trick, rulebook gives example of using 2200 head on 2400 block. But, who knows?
I chose the 1.6 based on all the posts about it, prefer the 4 bearing cam setup. I expect I'd have to have one shipped from Europe, aren't they pretty common there?
Thank You!

jeff i was in every junk yard within 20 mile of my home in the last 2 weeks and did not see 1 cih engine , i am looking for some bits for folks and will keep a sharp eye out for 1 for you

 

[baz]

jeff i went to look at a manta A 1.6 today ,turned out to be a 2.2 "B" with a getrag or ZF 5 speed damm so not a total waste of a trip

let the PM's begin

 

[jeff denton]

Thanks Baz, I expect when one is found it will be halfway around the world from here, yes shipping will be gruesome but ya gotta pay to play, huh?
This isn't always a cheap game, some things can be done on a budget, others just can't...

 

[baz]

jeff who much of the head do you need , as in will you be changing cam,valves ,springs and the like if so i think it might just get below 25kg if so it would be £60 to send 2-5 day (as ever with the exchange rate between the pound and the yo yo ,i quote in £ and have to see what the dollar is doing on the day to have an exact cost )

 

[jeff denton]

Thanks Baz, a totally stripped, bare casting would be plenty, sixty quid shipping is absolutely reasonable. I would gladly pay for a machine shop to thoroughly examine the core and make sure it is worth all the trouble to send it, as it would be professionally examined once it got here anyway...
It would be awesome if you were to do this for me! By all means, when figuring exchange rate do pad it by a comfortable percentage and expect to receive a nice gratuity from me as well! It is worth it.
Oh guess what? Speedway timed in third fastest last night. Won the trophy dash! Third place in the heat race even after being sent to the back after being involved in a slight (okay, a horrible) crash. And, best of all, third place in the main event! Wow, my best night ever! And we have only just begun. Next year's goal, to win a main event. Just a little more horsepower will DO IT!!

 

[jeff denton]

Well, guess what? A 1.6 head is within two hundred miles of me, but not exactly for sale. Same source offers several 1.5 heads, though.
Question. Since I somehow insist on the 1.6 (four cam bearings) versus the 1.5 (three cam bearings), now I wonder how important that extra bearing is?
I can't help but think it would be very important, when used with the most radical cams and springs that might be needed to rev 7500 for fifteen minutes at a time. If I am wrong, the 1.5 head is easy to get, but I need absolute peace of mind that it will be bulletproof.
Opinions, please? Thanks!

 

[RallyBob]

Well, guess what? A 1.6 head is within two hundred miles of me, but not exactly for sale. Same source offers several 1.5 heads, though.
Question. Since I somehow insist on the 1.6 (four cam bearings) versus the 1.5 (three cam bearings), now I wonder how important that extra bearing is?
I can't help but think it would be very important, when used with the most radical cams and springs that might be needed to rev 7500 for fifteen minutes at a time. If I am wrong, the 1.5 head is easy to get, but I need absolute peace of mind that it will be bulletproof.
Opinions, please? Thanks!

Below 7500 sustained rpms the 1.5 head seems fine, especially with a stud girdle. Above sustained 8000 rpms...it's shortlived. I loaned my street 2.0 litre block/1.5 head to a friend of mine many years ago as a temporary engine while his race engine was being machined. He ran it from 8500-8800 rpms.

At the 3rd race #3 cylinder intake stud broke....then the rocker shattered, then the lifter shot up and dented the valve cover, went back down, and was punched through the head's water jackets by the cam lobe, the valve dropped, putting a hole in the piston. Broken head, broken cam, broken piston, broken block. He gave me back a pile of junk, not useable in any way.

As you can see the unsupported cylinder lost the rocker stud, probably from cam flex and the resultant slapping of the lifter against the lobe.

Bob