[hrcollinsjr]

Ummmm....nope! With the exception of one Mantapart head I flowed, every head I tested with stock valves that had been 'professionally' ported actually flowed LESS than stock.

Back in the day, local race track rules were "stock" valves and NO porting. One of the stories I recall was one of the racers got protested. They discovered that his heads were ported. He came back the next week with stock non-ported heads and went faster.

Harold

 

[GoinManta]

If I were running Opel valves (9 mm) and wanted a bulletproof combo without going to custom parts:

2.0 or 2.2 stock Opel retainers. Thicker at the center (where 1.9 retainers like to split) and slightly heavier, but strong.

Stock keepers.

Crower 68106 outer valve springs. They are a press fit onto stock retainers. Usually I use the 68106x208 inner/outer combo with Chevy valves but with a stock cam you don't need that much pressure.

Thanks Bob.. with that I think we have all the answers easy to find and in less than a page

One question.. if using Chevy Valves and the Chevy springs.. couldn't you just use Chevy retainers and caps ?

Also why am I remembering something about Pontiac 400 springs and retainers ?

Stock rocker studs (no option otherwise).

Stock rocker arms. No option other than aftermarket Opel-specific roller rockers.

The Opel thread in the block is 10 mm x 1.5 pitch. It has a tapered top seat too. Chevy screw in studs are a different thread, have a hex head that would interfere with an Opel rocker and....oh yea, they have no oiling hole. So the rockers would run dry. And 3/8" is smaller than 10 mm so.....

I thought I remember the Thevenins of Opel Parts and Service use 2.8L GM V6 rocker nuts with a washer ? Any reason they won't work as studs ? I thought I remember them using them as well. I see what you mean about the taper and hex.. could that be machined away and a oil hole drilled in..?

10mm - 57MM OVERALL LENGTH ($1.45)

At this point I am just thinking out loud.. in case someone needed studs in an emergency and or to save a few bucks..

Same for rockers.. the 2.8L V6 Chevy rocker rations is 1.6 whats the Opel ? or is it the fact our rockers sit in a lifter and not on a pushrod so they are just that different.

 

[wrench459 (R.I.P.)]

.. the 2.8L V6 Chevy rocker rations is 1.6 whats the Opel ?

Most aftermarket grinders states 1.5 spec
To find the TRUE rocker ratio
Build the cylinder head
Then use a dial indicator at the valve face

Sorry picture but the best that I have...

 

[GoinManta]

Most aftermarket grinders states 1.5 spec
To find the TRUE rocker ratio
Build the cylinder head
Then use a dial indicator at the valve face

OK.. given that most are made the same within a tolerance the generic number of 1.5 pretty much tells the tale and gives the answer. If Opel rockers are 1.5 and 2.8L V6 are 1.6 then no matter how close the rest of the geometry is they won't work at least not without a custom cam.. and the exercise here is to avoid costs not create them.

 

[blancojp (R.I.P.)]

OK.. given that most are made the same within a tolerance the generic number of 1.5 pretty much tells the tale and gives the answer. If Opel rockers are 1.5 and 2.8L V6 are 1.6 then no matter how close the rest of the geometry is they won't work at least not without a custom cam.. and the exercise here is to avoid costs not create them.

On the contrary, it will work just fine with a stock cam and will give you 6.67% additional lift. Valve to piston clearance needs to be checked and a slight relief might be required, but by far the simplest modification. Rocker ratio is just a multiplier to the cam lobe allowing the maximum lift available, without having to modify the cam lobe height. This is an old trick used by racers way back when to gain a small amount of lift and make more (untraceable) power.

The DOG has all Chevy valves, rockers and hardware from a second gen aluminum head 3.1L engine. The machine shop took care of everything and to quote Edwin, "your engine does not sound like an Opel". It does play havoc when cold, but when at temperature it's a whole different story. This combination has traveled 4,612 miles so far without mechanical incidents, just a few oil leaks.

 

[GoinManta]

On the contrary, it will work just fine with a stock cam and will give you 6.67% additional lift. Valve to piston clearance needs to be checked and a slight relief might be required, but by far the simplest modification. Rocker ratio is just a multiplier to the cam lobe allowing the maximum lift available, without having to modify the cam lobe height. This is an old trick used by racers way back when to gain a small amount of lift and make more (untraceable) power.

The DOG has all Chevy valves, rockers and hardware from a second gen aluminum head 3.1L engine. The machine shop took care of everything and to quote Edwin, "your engine does not sound like an Opel". It does play havoc when cold, but when at temperature it's a whole different story. This combination has traveled 4,612 miles so far without mechanical incidents, just a few oil leaks.

It wouldn't be an Opel without an oil leak. Can't spell Oil leak without an O and a L.

That said.. interesting to know. Be curious if it would work to give a low compression motor a little more power..? Given the dish nature of the piston I don't think clearance would be an issue.

At minimum good to know I was remembering correctly. So Opel P&S did probably use 2.8L components. Did you use the rocker studs too ?

 

[blancojp (R.I.P.)]

It wouldn't be an Opel without an oil leak. Can't spell Oil leak without an O and a L.

That said.. interesting to know. Be curious if it would work to give a low compression motor a little more power..? Given the dish nature of the piston I don't think clearance would be an issue.

At minimum good to know I was remembering correctly. So Opel P&S did probably use 2.8L components. Did you use the rocker studs too ?

Don't remember about the studs but I believe the shop took care of this during the head work.

 

[RallyBob]

So did they add pushrods to your engine Juan? I'm just trying to picture what was done. There must be guide plates too otherwise the rockers would turn sideways.

I would think they keep the Opel rocker studs so there was oiing present. Using the 60 degree V6 parts would require countersinking the holes to prevent the rockers from hitting the rocker stud hex. And external oiling.

 

[wrench459 (R.I.P.)]

So did they add pushrods to your engine Juan?

I can't speak for sure..but I think that the DOG used uneven push-rod lengths.
Maybe the good Dr. will confirm.

 

[blancojp (R.I.P.)]

So did they add pushrods to your engine Juan? I'm just trying to picture what was done. There must be guide plates too otherwise the rockers would turn sideways.

I would think they keep the Opel rocker studs so there was oiing present. Using the 60 degree V6 parts would require countersinking the holes to prevent the rockers from hitting the rocker stud hex. And external oiling.

Nope, I do not have push rods on my engine, I have custom made followers and locks. The DOG's engine was built a few years ago by a machine shop in Tavares, Fla, they owed me a few bucks so I traded them the work. I did the lower halve and Dwight took care of the upper halve. They worked mostly on Mopars so I figured the DOG's head had alot of similar Hemi type work in it. Can't say for sure but I believe it was dyno'd in house at 142Hp at the flywheel. The engine when cold it is a lawn mower, when up to temperature it is mean as can be and roars after the 2KRpm mark.

I have to fix an oil leak on the valve cover before I start adding the FI system, I'll take a few pictures then.

 

[Paul]

Charles
several years back I did a head using RB input. the parts I used were:

Intake Valves Manley#11522 cut down to 1.72" ordered these from Summit
Exhaust Manley # 11521 1.50" ordered these from Summit
Valve springs Isky 905-D works with cam lifts up to .450-.460"
Retainers Isky 507ST steel retainers

These valves weigh LESS than stock Opel valves even with steel retainers.

This head has worked great with the OR-66 cam. If I was to build another head I would either use a 1.77" Intake or make the exhaust smaller like a 1.42 or a 1.45"

if using cam with common profile for I&E Id make the Exhaust valve smaller so the exhaust would run cooler.

The unshrouding & port work that work for this was covered in one of RB's posts years ago and is pretty easy to follow. Especially with all of the pictures he has posted....

 

[GoinManta]

2.8L TOP

2.8L BOTTOM

Opel

So did they add pushrods to your engine Juan? I'm just trying to picture what was done. There must be guide plates too otherwise the rockers would turn sideways.

Other than the tip the Rockers don't look much different..

Maybe you could use a small ball bearing to act as the pushrod and tie the rocker to the lifter ?

I would think they keep the Opel rocker studs so there was oiling present. Using the 60 degree V6 parts would require countersinking the holes to prevent the rockers from hitting the rocker stud hex. And external oiling.

I see what you mean.. are these just two holes or is it hollow between them ? How do other engines get oil to the rocker ball ?

 

[RallyBob]

Other than the tip the Rockers don't look much different..

They are. The relationship between the center pivot and outer rubbing points is WAYYY off, just like small block Chevy. Opel rockers have all their rubbing points basically in a straight line. The Chevy center pivot is very low compared to the outer rubbing points.

Maybe you could use a small ball bearing to act as the pushrod and tie the rocker to the lifter ?

Two problems. No compensation for the arc the rocker travels in (hence the Opel's sliding tip), and two...if your valve lash goes out you launch the ball bearing, rocker rotates to the side, lifter ejects, head gets destroyed.

I see what you mean.. are these just two holes or is it hollow between them ? How do other engines get oil to the rocker ball ?

The holes are connected.

Chevy rockers get lubed thru the hollow pushrods.

 

[RallyBob]

This should show the geometry difference. At the top, a roller rocker designed for a CIH engine. Note all the roller pivots are in nearly a straight line.

Bottom. Modified Chevy-based rocker with pushrod. Note the difference in center fulcrum height versus the outer pivot points. It's huge. Because of this, the pushrod tilts at an exaggerated angle under use. Although these rockers do work, it's a well known fact that any valve float will eject pushrods.

 

[GoinManta]

Thanks.. for the clarifications.

So it would seem the only thing Opel P&S probably used was the rocker nut and that required a hardened washer.

 

[wrench459 (R.I.P.)]

I see what you mean.. are these just two holes or is it hollow between them ? How do other engines get oil to the rocker ball ?

If you look at the far right stud..you might notice that the thread pitch is different:ugh:

I used a old RV2 compressor along with 1/2HP electric motor mounted on a piece of 1X6.
To keep to valves up lifted while cutting the stud...very crude I must say.

 

[GoinManta]

Modern EFI - Simple and Easy..?

OK.. putting my sons Manta back together.. and when parked the carb was being a pain.

SO.. since I did this -

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/fuel-i...jection-mods/47130-upgraded-bosch-injection-your-opel-all-one-concise-post.html

I havent looked back.. and was going to do that to the Manta. THEN I found out how hard it is to find good 83-85 BMW 318i components. Add to that some of the ones I had on teh Kadett (like teh AFM) were bad and I swapped parts I had saved to the Kadett.

Then and this happened -

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/fuel-injection-mods/66177-custom-made-fuel-injection-ecu-14.html

As I stated in the previous thread I was going with the BMW system because #1 expense, #2 ease of installation and #3 while VERY close to the Opel system it had ONE major difference.. it had a O2 sensor to help maintain the EFI.

So given that I will not need a AFM or ECU from a BMW and thus I won't need the BMW specific harness, cost wise it should be a wash.

Also it will be much better system.

So since I have experience with cobbling together parts, also as I like to document things as simply as possible, and work in a budget, I will be the guinea pig for the good Dr. to prove his system is both efficient, cost effective and easy to install.

 

[GoinManta]

What I am starting with.. a Budget of $1200

A Freshened High Compression 1.9L ( Originally Blueprinted and balanced using Chevy 283 pistons over 15 years ago.. and Still when I took it apart had a average of 150 PSI Compression).

So new bearings and rings and timing chain, will all I need here. ($200 I have a gasket set for free)

Heads will be reworked to : Chevy 1.72" Intake and 1.50" Exhaust valves, new seats and guides (Maybe $300)

So leaving me $700 for the EFI.

This is what I have to start with.. thats "free"

An Old 75 Intake, a 2.0L Thermostat housing, and a few odds and ends.. I know some parts have just walked way because why would I have half a fuel rail..?

I thought I had a complete 75 intake and thermostat housing.. and I have one more place to look.. and I would prefer to start there as that's what people will be able to find and or have lying around.

Plans are to use:

Accel 74779 Universal Idle Air Control ( Will mount where the Aux Air Control Valve was on thermostat housing and feel to intake ) - $81 ( Cyberweek special)

Opel Temp Sender - Free

Fuel Pressure Regulator - Universal JDM ( Ebay ) - $22

Injectors - HIGH Impedance - 83-91 VW Vanagon 1.9L - @ $24.79 ( UltraPower 4MFI18 / Bosch - 0280150206 ) - This is to keep costs and fabrication down. These injectors flow on par with stock Opel needs, worked well in my Kadett, and fit the Opel fuel rail and manifold. - $100

Nissan SR20DE TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) - Used Ebay - $40-$80

GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail ( Intake Air Temp Sensor ) - $25

O2 Sensor - $20

Fuel Pump - Universal BOSCH Part # 69414 / PERFORMANCE ELECTRIC Part # P38 $46.78

EDC SS-ECU - ~$200

EDC SS-4 Distributor - ~$100

Coil 60,000 Flamethrower - Free

Total : $676

Now if you can find a 1984 BMW 318i and a 1980 Vanagon with 1.9L in the pick-a-part, and/or find some of those parts online the old system I had put together on the Kadett would be a little cheaper. BUT if you were to do the BMW/VW/Opel setup and bought all new parts.. this is actually about the same cost or a little cheaper.

Wiring harness will be straight forward as I have most the pieces, and a few old harnesses to get the injector plugs and such off.

I will batch fire so not sure I will need a crank sensor.. but will let the good Dr elaborate on anything I am missing..

 

[blancojp (R.I.P.)]

the adventure starts

Charles thanks for starting the thread we will document everything that is needed for this installation.

One of the biggest guides we have available is the MEGA manual, it has just about every informative detail you can think off. There is a write up which is a very well documented segment located here: Wiring and Sensors that talks about the standard sensors required and their part number. We are going to use this as a guide in our installation as a reference.

The SS4 is a self contained unit for ignition only. This installation ca be done with a distributor but here is no need to make the distributor intelligent. The ignition section will be determined at a later date.

Everything on the list is fine for now, we need to add a second temperature sender which will be wired back to the S-ECU. The Opel temp sender will be wired to the gauge cluster for display operation only. Most of the sensors used previously by other installers were purchased here: Accessories, Wiring items in EFI Source store on eBay!

We also need a few of the interface boards to drive the injectors and the ignition coil(s). These boards are manufactured and supplied by EDC LLc for this installation.

 

[GoinManta]

Charles thanks for starting the thread we will document everything that is needed for this installation.

One of the biggest guides we have available is the MEGA manual, it has just about every informative detail you can think off. There is a write up which is a very well documented segment located here: Wiring and Sensors that talks about the standard sensors required and their part number. We are going to use this as a guide in our installation as a reference.

The SS4 is a self contained unit for ignition only. This installation ca be done with a distributor but here is no need to make the distributor intelligent. The ignition section will be determined at a later date.

Everything on the list is fine for now, we need to add a second temperature sender which will be wired back to the S-ECU. The Opel temp sender will be wired to the gauge cluster for display operation only. Most of the sensors used previously by other installers were purchased here: Accessories, Wiring items in EFI Source store on eBay!

We also need a few of the interface boards to drive the injectors and the ignition coil(s). These boards are manufactured and supplied by EDC LLc for this installation.

The temp sensor I was referring to was the Bosch one that the Opel EFI uses, not the sending unit for the dash.

I already got the IAC valve setup from Acell as it was in stock at one place and they had a killer deal on it.

I will read over the rest. The distributors I have are not 75 and may not run right. I was hoping to do both just for simplicity sake.