[davegt27]

sounds good thanks

I am still studying
I don't think the 6 cyl dist is needed
but I am out of 4 Cyl CIH front covers

I received a Vauxhall, Carlton & Senator Haynes repair manual a few days ago (that's where I got the info on priming the tensioner and the stock oil pressure)

one thing to note the heads have some pretty big valves stock (might explain there high HP potential)

intake valves 37.4 mm exhaust 30.5

I also sent a message to Risse Motorsports but received no response

David

 

[P.J. Romano (R.I.P.)]

Norbert's link to the thread showing this modification was an eye opener. It is huge and expensive project.
Using my basic knowledge of German, I translated the main part, set it up in a more logical order and formatted it as a PDF file. Enjoy.

 

[GoinManta]

sounds good thanks

I am still studying
I don't thing the 6 cyl dist is needed
but I am out of 4 Cyl CIH front covers

I received a Vauxhall, Carlton & Senator Haynes repair manual a few days ago (that's where I got the info on priming the tensioner and the stock oil pressure)

one thing to note the heads have some pretty big valves stock (might explain there high HP potential)

intake valves 37.4 mm exhaust 30.5

I also sent a message to Risse Motorsports but received no response

David

Big Valves you say..? ( 41mm and 48mm ) But on a 8V head

Let me know I probably have a spare or two or three

Norbert's link to the thread showing this modification was an eye opener. It is huge and expensive project.
Using my basic knowledge of German, I translated the main part, set it up in a more logical order and formatted it as a PDF file. Enjoy.

Curious if he ever finished... noticed the directions stop at page 11.

 

[Gary]

When the Senator gets here it will have the Dizzy that was missing, and Rav thinks he found a useable set of used pads in the trunk for you.

The dizzy will also need to be modified to go from 6 cyl to 4 cyl....

My wagon with the rebuilt 24v is up and running. I did prime the secondary tensioner and fill the pump, filter and oil cooler before turning it over with the plugs out to prime the whole system.

 

[davegt27]

Norbert's link to the thread showing this modification was an eye opener. It is huge and expensive project.
Using my basic knowledge of German, I translated the main part, set it up in a more logical order and formatted it as a PDF file. Enjoy.

thanks been studying that build and your translation clears up a few questions

I also been looking at this one

https://www.garaget.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=307898

they seem to say you need to use the 4 Cyl timing cover since the hole where the crank comes out is larger on the 6cyl

edit: I got this wrong the 6 cyl cover is smaller

edit: info on a 3.0 24v race motor (DTM)

https://translate.google.com/transl...ate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.kadett-c-limo.de/index.php?Seite=c30se&prev=search

even has PV diagram area chart

 

[Driftmaster]

Picture i found

Biggest issues:
Oil routing, where will it enter the head AND will it go...different solution for different aims
Be sure to check it really careful, also possible points where it could mix up with water.

Water passes, the headgasket will tell you ways

Cam journal straightness after cutting and welding!!!!!

Cams custom billet

Nothing NASA technology...only things wich are done 40 years ago also.
But you have to be prepared for problems.

 

[Gary]

they seem to say you need to use the 4 Cyl timing cover since the hole where the crank comes out is larger on the 6cyl

edit: I got this wrong the 6 cyl cover is smaller

The 4 cyl timing cover has different oil delivery passages to the head. If you are able to get around that, a big plus will be if you are able to use the 1.9's timing chain guides with the simplex chain. The 24v guides are very expensive if you can get them at all.

 

[Driftmaster]

The 24v guides are very expensive if you can get them at all.

You need them, as the chain tensioner sits in the head, not on the lower position as on the 8V engines.

And have to made space in the timing chain cover that will cover them

Regards
Rene

 

[Gary]

You need them, as the chain tensioner sits in the head, not on the lower position as on the 8V engines.

And have to made space in the timing chain cover that will cover them

Regards
Rene

Could you use the 8v chain tensioner and fit the simplex chain length? It would be difficult to mount the 24v guides on the 8v block.

When I had my 24v apart, I compared the chain covers and just shook my head. There are a lot of differences between them.

 

[davegt27]

I think one is a double roller timing chain and one is not

I did see a company in China that offers to make the tensioners

https://hzocean.en.alibaba.com/prod...l_Omega_A_1987_1993_Vauxhall_Senator_B_1988_1994_TIMING_CHAIN_KIT_90352331.html

also you might be able to make some using a 3D printer

 

[Gary]

I think one is a double roller timing chain and one is not

Correct. I was referring to using the single chain with the double chain guides and tensioner. Edelschmiede is selling the straight 24v guides and had the curved ones made but the quality was not good so they are looking for another vendor. Those guides are so critical. I would (and did) not trust an off-brand aftermarket. I was able to find a GM set for my motor.

 

[davegt27]

I don't even have one to take down to autozone and compare it to something out of a Honda or something like that

you didn't happen to make a trace of the one you had or compare it to a Opel CIH one to see if the angle was close?

 

[Gary]

I don't even have one to take down to autozone and compare it to something out of a Honda or something like that

you didn't happen to make a trace of the one you had or compare it to a Opel CIH one to see if the angle was close?

Are you talking about the 24v guides? I did some research for crossing them and bought one from a Nissan that wasn't even close... I do have the old 24v guides.

The straight guide bolts to the block and upper end has a "U" that fits into a pin on the head. The curved one pivots off of a pin attached to the block and the tensioner is in the head. It might be easier to use the 8v guides and cover. (the bolt holes on the right side of the 24v are different)

 

[davegt27]

do you want to sell your used guides?

also a Honda K20 guide looks interesting

 

[Driftmaster]

Could not be done with the 8V tensioner.
As these engines have plenty problems with chain vibration i would always go the way for a long guide.

Mounting the guide is an overlooked an overengineered task often.
A simple hole with tap on the right position in the block face with a manufactured and insertet bolt works very well.

Regards

 

[Gary]

Could not be done with the 8V tensioner.
As these engines have plenty problems with chain vibration i would always go the way for a long guide.

Mounting the guide is an overlooked an overengineered task often.
A simple hole with tap on the right position in the block face with a manufactured and insertet bolt works very well.

Regards

Good to know. Thank you Rene.

 

[davegt27]

found a video of one of these engines in a GT

seems every time I see a video of a CIH 16V its in a Kadett C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKiZSjKjkA

 

[GoinManta]

found a video of one of these engines in a GT

seems every time I see a video of a CIH 16V its in a Kadett C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKiZSjKjkA

Because the very few 4 cyl versions that were made went into Kadett Cs

 

[RallyBob]

Because the very few 4 cyl versions that were made went into Kadett Cs

More likely because they made a little over 100,000 Opel GT's, and a little over 1.7 million Kadett C's.

On top of that, the Kadett C was (as still is) one of the preferred Opels for motorsports or fast road use.

But as far as original Cosworth 2.4 16V engines go, those only came in Ascona 400, or Manta 400 chassis. Back in the day you could order a spare 2.4 16V from Opel's Sport division, and I'm sure some ended up in street cars. But they weren't homologated for racing or rally use in any other chassis.

There was an even rarer 2.0 litre 16V engine that was homologated in the Kadett C chassis for rally use, but they were known to be problematic, and at the same time the Group 4 rules changed so that engine was abandoned. Very rare indeed....

 

[Commodåren]

Although there was one T-car derivative you could buy with a road-legal 16V engine, the Vauxhall Chevette HS.
Classic Vauxhall Chevette cars for sale | Classic and Performance Car Too bad they were made in such small numbers compared to 16S/20E and 20EH equipped Kadetts. Sorry for OT.